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	<title>Comments on: Voting irregularities?</title>
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	<link>http://ubcinsiders.ca/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/</link>
	<description>Separating the wheat from the chaff.</description>
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		<title>By: Maria_Jogova</title>
		<link>http://ubcinsiders.ca/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10077</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria_Jogova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubcinsiders.ca/wp/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/#comment-10077</guid>
		<description>Rodrigo, you can&#039;t deny that your source was mistaken.  This isn&#039;t about student activism at all.  This is about reporting on things and not implicating someone in something until there&#039;s evidence that says otherwise.  This also has nothing to do with student activism, and everything about trying to slander a person&#039;s name by actually reporting the name of a student who was shown not to be involved in the &#039;scandal&#039;.  Don&#039;t let your views cloud your judgment.  This has nothing to do with student activism, and everything to do with reporting.  You can be skeptical, but only to a certain extent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rodrigo, you can&#8217;t deny that your source was mistaken.  This isn&#8217;t about student activism at all.  This is about reporting on things and not implicating someone in something until there&#8217;s evidence that says otherwise.  This also has nothing to do with student activism, and everything about trying to slander a person&#8217;s name by actually reporting the name of a student who was shown not to be involved in the &#8216;scandal&#8217;.  Don&#8217;t let your views cloud your judgment.  This has nothing to do with student activism, and everything to do with reporting.  You can be skeptical, but only to a certain extent.</p>
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		<title>By: Rodrigo Ferrari Nunes</title>
		<link>http://ubcinsiders.ca/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10076</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodrigo Ferrari Nunes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubcinsiders.ca/wp/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/#comment-10076</guid>
		<description>Radical beer - are you engaging in &#039;rodrigo-hatred&#039; or what? I guess that is allowed and fostered where you come from. In fact, the UBC Student Media is not just Rodrigo (what a feat that would be), but since you think in monotones, we&#039;ll allow your intelligence to bloom. Your logic is: attack and discredit student activists just for being activists, we don&#039;t need them, here where everyone wears a suit and speaks the same language. And, ahh, thanks for screwing up the Electoral Area A district elections, by the way. Your 60 votes cost the best candidate the race, so good job!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Radical beer &#8211; are you engaging in &#8216;rodrigo-hatred&#8217; or what? I guess that is allowed and fostered where you come from. In fact, the UBC Student Media is not just Rodrigo (what a feat that would be), but since you think in monotones, we&#8217;ll allow your intelligence to bloom. Your logic is: attack and discredit student activists just for being activists, we don&#8217;t need them, here where everyone wears a suit and speaks the same language. And, ahh, thanks for screwing up the Electoral Area A district elections, by the way. Your 60 votes cost the best candidate the race, so good job!</p>
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		<title>By: radicalbeer</title>
		<link>http://ubcinsiders.ca/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10074</link>
		<dc:creator>radicalbeer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 19:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubcinsiders.ca/wp/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/#comment-10074</guid>
		<description>As per elections committee&#039;s release this morning, there&#039;s a reason we don&#039;t take Rodrigo seriously people.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;How is the &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.blogger.com/profile/04853287860806948648&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Knoll Aid 2.0 Truth Commission&lt;/a&gt; coming along?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As per elections committee&#8217;s release this morning, there&#8217;s a reason we don&#8217;t take Rodrigo seriously people.</p>
<p>How is the <a HREF="http://www.blogger.com/profile/04853287860806948648" REL="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Knoll Aid 2.0 Truth Commission</a> coming along?</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Lougheed</title>
		<link>http://ubcinsiders.ca/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10071</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Lougheed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubcinsiders.ca/wp/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/#comment-10071</guid>
		<description>I EAT PUPPIES OM NOM NOM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I EAT PUPPIES OM NOM NOM.</p>
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		<title>By: Fire Hydrant</title>
		<link>http://ubcinsiders.ca/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10070</link>
		<dc:creator>Fire Hydrant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 04:00:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubcinsiders.ca/wp/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/#comment-10070</guid>
		<description>Unless the elections code has changed drastically in the past year, candidates are held accountable for the actions of those campaigning on their behalf (with or without their support or knowledge).  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This is done to avoid sneaky violations of the elections rules where the candidate gets his/her friends to play dirty, then claims no knowledge.  The EA would need proof that the candidate directed it -- such proof is nearly impossible to get, and if the candidate can easily avoid consequences in any case, supporters may just decide to play dirty of their own accord.  When the candidates are held accountable, they (in principle) tell their supporters &quot;If you don&#039;t follow these rules, I could be disqualified&quot;, and things tend to work out.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If I&#039;m the EA, I first need to talk with a lot of people to establish what exactly happened.  If something bad happened, I have to establish whether it likely had an impact on the outcome.  In first-past-the-post, if this is a 100-vote effect and the margin of victory is 150 votes (or the candidate doing it lost), it didn&#039;t change the outcome, and a reimbursement penalty would suffice.  This analysis is more complicated in Condorcet, but still possible, and the more-detailed information available this year on when votes are cast &lt;i&gt;might&lt;/i&gt; even allow the EA to pick out unusual patterns in voting behaviour.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If the allegations are proven and may have materially affected the outcome, the candidate can be disqualified, the voting in that race can be redone or perhaps reopened to dilute the questionable votes (with severe campaign restrictions on the culprit), or some other creative solution could be found.  Votes cannot be subtracted -- this is disallowed by Code and doing it reliably isn&#039;t possible with secret ballots, let alone ranked ballots.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Given the preparation required for paper balloting and the rather limited number of ways candidates can be punished at this point, I&#039;d probably just withhold the results of that race and deal with it in a few days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unless the elections code has changed drastically in the past year, candidates are held accountable for the actions of those campaigning on their behalf (with or without their support or knowledge).  </p>
<p>This is done to avoid sneaky violations of the elections rules where the candidate gets his/her friends to play dirty, then claims no knowledge.  The EA would need proof that the candidate directed it &#8212; such proof is nearly impossible to get, and if the candidate can easily avoid consequences in any case, supporters may just decide to play dirty of their own accord.  When the candidates are held accountable, they (in principle) tell their supporters &#8220;If you don&#8217;t follow these rules, I could be disqualified&#8221;, and things tend to work out.  </p>
<p>If I&#8217;m the EA, I first need to talk with a lot of people to establish what exactly happened.  If something bad happened, I have to establish whether it likely had an impact on the outcome.  In first-past-the-post, if this is a 100-vote effect and the margin of victory is 150 votes (or the candidate doing it lost), it didn&#8217;t change the outcome, and a reimbursement penalty would suffice.  This analysis is more complicated in Condorcet, but still possible, and the more-detailed information available this year on when votes are cast <i>might</i> even allow the EA to pick out unusual patterns in voting behaviour.  </p>
<p>If the allegations are proven and may have materially affected the outcome, the candidate can be disqualified, the voting in that race can be redone or perhaps reopened to dilute the questionable votes (with severe campaign restrictions on the culprit), or some other creative solution could be found.  Votes cannot be subtracted &#8212; this is disallowed by Code and doing it reliably isn&#8217;t possible with secret ballots, let alone ranked ballots.  </p>
<p>Given the preparation required for paper balloting and the rather limited number of ways candidates can be punished at this point, I&#8217;d probably just withhold the results of that race and deal with it in a few days.</p>
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		<title>By: Maria_Jogova</title>
		<link>http://ubcinsiders.ca/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10066</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria_Jogova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 01:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubcinsiders.ca/wp/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/#comment-10066</guid>
		<description>Rodrigo- yes, this would be a violation of the rules if it had happened.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I don&#039;t know the person who filed a complaint- but I do know that several people have now denied it.  Until it&#039;s been confirmed, I do not want to publish the names of the people implicated, because as far as I&#039;m concerned, so far it&#039;s just hearsay.  So why do I even bother posting on it?  Because students want to know what happened.  Because it&#039;s still news that might affect the election.  Because I feel that students should know what possible ramifications are if this is true.  And no, I&#039;m not accusing you of anything, Rodrigo- you also are reporting on a story.  I just chose to do the same thing differently.  I&#039;m not looking the other way, I just don&#039;t want to mention a name, as rumours tend to stick, and until there&#039;s more evidence that this happened, I do not wish to add fuel to the fire.  See my previous post on the role of rumours in elections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rodrigo- yes, this would be a violation of the rules if it had happened.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know the person who filed a complaint- but I do know that several people have now denied it.  Until it&#8217;s been confirmed, I do not want to publish the names of the people implicated, because as far as I&#8217;m concerned, so far it&#8217;s just hearsay.  So why do I even bother posting on it?  Because students want to know what happened.  Because it&#8217;s still news that might affect the election.  Because I feel that students should know what possible ramifications are if this is true.  And no, I&#8217;m not accusing you of anything, Rodrigo- you also are reporting on a story.  I just chose to do the same thing differently.  I&#8217;m not looking the other way, I just don&#8217;t want to mention a name, as rumours tend to stick, and until there&#8217;s more evidence that this happened, I do not wish to add fuel to the fire.  See my previous post on the role of rumours in elections.</p>
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		<title>By: Eden Hart</title>
		<link>http://ubcinsiders.ca/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10064</link>
		<dc:creator>Eden Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 01:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubcinsiders.ca/wp/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/#comment-10064</guid>
		<description>I heard a rumour that Alex Lougheed eats puppies. Are we going to report on that next?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard a rumour that Alex Lougheed eats puppies. Are we going to report on that next?</p>
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		<title>By: Rodrigo Ferrari Nunes</title>
		<link>http://ubcinsiders.ca/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10063</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodrigo Ferrari Nunes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 01:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubcinsiders.ca/wp/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/#comment-10063</guid>
		<description>You should contact the student who filed the claim directly instead of trying to accuse us of unfair reporting. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I am curious as to how do you know the student who reported this is lying, and what his motivation is to do this. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;According to Kommander Keg, it was indeed a violation. And last year we saw the same thing happen and Messoloras getting disqualified. I think that, as in general, people are afraid of pushing hard issues, and prefer to be bland and dry, and look the other way when their friends do something wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should contact the student who filed the claim directly instead of trying to accuse us of unfair reporting. </p>
<p>I am curious as to how do you know the student who reported this is lying, and what his motivation is to do this. </p>
<p>According to Kommander Keg, it was indeed a violation. And last year we saw the same thing happen and Messoloras getting disqualified. I think that, as in general, people are afraid of pushing hard issues, and prefer to be bland and dry, and look the other way when their friends do something wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Maria_Jogova</title>
		<link>http://ubcinsiders.ca/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10062</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria_Jogova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 01:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubcinsiders.ca/wp/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/#comment-10062</guid>
		<description>Rodrigo, you have one witness, and there have been several people who have now said that this didn&#039;t in fact happen.  The purpose of the post isn&#039;t to slander a candidate for potentially doing nothing wrong, but to a.) inform people of the story and its potential consequences and b.) to find out if your story has any actual merit.  Most of the comments in the story are either complete rumour, or they make references to things that have nothing to do with the story.  People have looked into it and it&#039;s unsubstantiated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rodrigo, you have one witness, and there have been several people who have now said that this didn&#8217;t in fact happen.  The purpose of the post isn&#8217;t to slander a candidate for potentially doing nothing wrong, but to a.) inform people of the story and its potential consequences and b.) to find out if your story has any actual merit.  Most of the comments in the story are either complete rumour, or they make references to things that have nothing to do with the story.  People have looked into it and it&#8217;s unsubstantiated.</p>
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		<title>By: Rodrigo Ferrari Nunes</title>
		<link>http://ubcinsiders.ca/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10061</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodrigo Ferrari Nunes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 00:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubcinsiders.ca/wp/2009/02/voting-irregularities-2/#comment-10061</guid>
		<description>This post seems a little bit outdated.The comment from the eyewitness to the event is here:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://ubcstudentmedia.wordpress.com/2009/02/03/exclusive-eyewitness-for-laptop-cookie-strategy-speaks-out/&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;and this is the post that has a lot of comments by different people on this issue:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://ubcstudentmedia.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/extra-laptop-cookie-campaign-strategy-plagues-ams-elections/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post seems a little bit outdated.The comment from the eyewitness to the event is here:</p>
<p><a href="http://ubcstudentmedia.wordpress.com/2009/02/03/exclusive-eyewitness-for-laptop-cookie-strategy-speaks-out/" rel="nofollow">http://ubcstudentmedia.wordpress.com/2009/02/03/exclusive-eyewitness-for-laptop-cookie-strategy-speaks-out/</a></p>
<p>and this is the post that has a lot of comments by different people on this issue:</p>
<p><a href="http://ubcstudentmedia.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/extra-laptop-cookie-campaign-strategy-plagues-ams-elections/" rel="nofollow">http://ubcstudentmedia.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/extra-laptop-cookie-campaign-strategy-plagues-ams-elections/</a></p>
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